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important because they keep us mechanical. We must realize that we always pass from one identification to another. If a man looks at a wall, he is identified with the wall. Q. How does identification diner from associations? A. Associations are quite another thing; they can be more controlled or less controlled, but they have nothing to do with identification. Different associations are a necessary part of thinking; we define things by associations and we do everything with the help of associations. Q. I cannot see why an 'I' changes. Can the cause always be seen in some identification? A. It is always by associations. A certain number of 'I's try to push their way to the front, so as soon as one loses oneself in one of them it is replaced by another. We think that 'I's are just passive, indifferent things, but emotions, associations, memories, always work. That is why it is useful to stop thinking, even occasionally, as an exercise. Then you will begin to see how difficult it is to do it. Your question simply shows that you have never tried, otherwise you would know. Q. Is concentration identification? A. Concentration is controlled action; identification controls you. Q. Is concentration possible for us? A. There are degrees. Intentional concentration for half an hour is impossible. If we could concentrate without external help, we would be conscious. But everything has degrees. Q. Is the beginning of a new observation identification with the object you observe? A. Identification happens when you are repelled or attracted by something. Study or observation does not necessarily produce identification, but attraction and repulsion always does. Also, we use too strong a language, and this automatically produces identification. We have many automatic appliances of this sort. Q. What can I do about identification? I feel that I always lose myself in whatever I do. It does not seem possible to be different. A. No, it is possible. If you have to do something, you have to do it, but you may identify more or identify less. There is nothing hopeless in it so long as you remember about it. Try to observe; you do not always identify to the same extent; sometimes you identify so that you can see nothing else, at other times you can see something. If things were always the same, there would be no chance for us, but they always vary in degree of intensity, and that gives a possibility of change. Everything we do, we have to learn in advance. If you want to drive a car, you have to learn beforehand. If you work now, in time you will have more control. Q. Why is it wrong to be completely absorbed in one's work? A. It will be bad work. If you are identified, you can never get good results. It is one of our illusions to think that we must lose ourselves to
get good results, for in this way we only get poor results. When one is identified, one does not exist; only the thing exists with which one is identified. Q. Is the aim of non-identifying to free the mind from the object? A. The aim is to awake. Identifying is a feature of sleep; identified mind is asleep. Freedom from identifying is one of the sides of awakening. A state where identifying does not exist is quite possible, but we do not observe it in life and we do not notice that we are constantly identified. Identifying cannot disappear by itself; struggle is necessary. Q. How can anyone awake if identification is universal? A. One can only awake as a result of effort, of struggle against it. But first one must understand what to identify means. As in everything else, so in identification there are degrees. In observing oneself one finds when one is more identified, less identified or not identified at all. If one wants to awake, one must and can get free from identifica tion. As we are, every moment of our life we are lost, we are never free, because we identify. Q. Can you give an example of identification? A. We identify all the time, that is why it is difficult to give an example. For instance, take likes and dislikes, they all mean identification, especially dislikes. They cannot exist without identification and generally they are nothing but identification. Usually people imagine that they have many more dislikes than they actually have. If they investigate and analyse them, they will probably find that they only dislike one or two things. When I studied it, there was only one real dislike that I could find in myself. But you must find your own examples; it must be verified by personal experience. If at a moment of a strong identification you try to stop it, you will see the idea. Q. But I still do not understand what it is! A. Let us try from the intellectual side. You realize that you do not remember yourself? Try to see why you cannot and you will find that identification prevents you. Then you will see what it is. All these things are connected. Q. Is non-identifying the only way to know what identifying is? A. No, as I explained, by observing it, because it is not always the same. We do not notice the temperature of our body except when it becomes a little higher or lower than normal. In the same way we can notice identification when it is stronger or weaker than usual. By comparing these degrees we can see what it is. Q. In struggling with identification is it necessary to know why one is identified? A. One is identified not for any particular reason or purpose, but in all cases because one cannot help it. How can you know why you identify? But you must know why you struggle. This is the thing. If you do not
forget the reason why, you will be ten times more successful. Very often we begin struggling and then forget why. There are many forms of identification, but the first step is to see it; the second step is to struggle with it in order to become free from it. As I said, it is a process, not a moment; we are in it all the time. We spend our energy in the wrong way on identification and negative emotions; they are open taps from which our energy flows out. Q. Can one suddenly change the energy of anger into something else? One has tremendous energy at these moments. A. One has tremendous energy, and it works by itself, without control, and makes one act in a certain way. Why? What is the connecting link? Identification is the link. Stop identification and you will have this energy at your disposal. How can you do this? Not at once; it needs practice at easier moments. When emotion is very strong you cannot do it. It is necessary to know more, to be prepared. If you know how not to identify at the right moment, you will have great energy at your disposal. What you do with it is another thing; you may lose it again on something quite useless. But it needs practice. You cannot learn to swim when you fall into the sea during a storm— you must learn in calm water. Then, if you fall in, you may perhaps be able to swim. I repeat again: it is impossible to be conscious if you are identified. This is one of the difficulties that comes later, because people have some favourite identifications which they do not want to give up, and at the same time they say they want to be conscious. The two things cannot go together. There are many incompatible things in life, and identification and consciousness are two of the most incompatible. Q. How can one avoid the reaction which comes after feeling very enthusiastic? Is it due to identification? A. Yes, this reaction comes as a result of identification. Struggle with identification will prevent it from happening. It is not what you call enthusiasm that produces the reaction, but the identification. Identification is always followed by this reaction. Q. Is a bored man identified with nothing? A. Boredom is also identification—one of the biggest. It is identification with oneself, with something in oneself. Q. It seems to me I cannot study a person without losing myself in him or her, yet I understand that this is wrong? A. It is a wrong idea that one cannot study a person or anything else without losing oneself. If you lose yourself in anything, you cannot study it. Identifying is always a weakening element: the more you identify the worse your study is and the smaller the results. You may remember that in the first lecture I said that identifying with people takes the form of considering. There are two kinds of considering: internal and external. Internal considering is the same as identifying.
External considering needs a certain amount of self-remembering; it means taking into account other people's weaknesses, putting oneself in their place. Often in life it is described by the word 'tact'; only tact may be educated or accidental. External considering means control. If we learn to use it consciously, it will give us a possibility of control. Internal considering is when we feel that people do not give us enough, do not appreciate us enough. If one considers internally one misses moments of external considering. External considering must be cultivated, internal considering must be eliminated. But first observe and see how often you miss moments of external considering and what an enormous role internal considering plays in life. Study of internal considering, of mechanicalness, of lying, of imagination, of identification shows that they all belong to us, that we are always in these states. When you see this, you realize the difficulty of work on oneself. Such as you are you cannot begin to get something new; you will see that first you must scrub the machine clean; it is too covered with rust. We think we are what we are. Unfortunately we are not what we are but what we have become; we are not natural beings. We are too asleep, we lie too much, we live too much in imagination, we identify too much. We think we have to do with real beings, but in reality we have to do with imaginary beings. Almost all we know about ourselves is imaginary. Beneath all this agglomeration man is quite different. We have many imaginary things we must throw off before we can come to real things. So long as we live in imaginary things, we cannot see the value of the real; and only when we come to real things in ourselves can we see what is real outside us. We have too much accidental growth in us. Q. If one retired from the world, surely one would overcome identification, considering and negative emotion? A. This question is often asked, but one cannot be at all sure that it would be easier. Besides you can find descriptions in literature of how people attained a very high degree of development in seclusion, but when they came in contact with other people they at once lost all they had gained. In schools of the Fourth Way it was found that the best conditions for study and work on oneself are a man's ordinary conditions of life, because from one point of view these conditions are easier and from another they are the most difficult. So if a man gets something in these conditions he will keep it in all conditions, whereas if he gets it in special conditions he will lose it in other conditions. Q. Could you, please, say again which is internal and which external considering? A. External considering is a form of self-remembering in relation to people. You take other people into consideration and do, not what is pleasant to you, but what is pleasant to them. It means you must sacrifice yourself, but it does not mean self sacrifice. It means that in relation to
people you must not act without thinking. You must think first, and then act. Your thinking will show you that, more often than not, if this person would prefer you to act in one manner and not in another, it is all the same to you, so why not do what he likes? So the idea of sacrifice does not enter into it. But if it is not the same to you, it is quite a different question. What is better for you, what is better for them, who those people are, what you want from them, what you want to do for them—all this must enter into it. But the idea is that in relation to people things must not happen mechanically, without thinking. You must decide your course of action. It means you do not walk over people without seeing them. And internal considering means that you walk over them without noticing. We have too much internal and not enough external considering. External considering is very important for self-remembering. If we have not got enough of it, we cannot remember ourselves. Q. Is it the same as understanding people? A. No, you can understand people only as much as you understand yourself. It is understanding their difficulties, understanding what they want, watching the impression you produce on people and trying not to produce a wrong impression. Q. Would you say that kindness is external considering? A. What you knew in life is not external considering. It is necessary to understand the principle and create standards for oneself. With the help of external considering you control the impression you wish to produce. With internal considering you wish to produce one impression and produce a different one. Q. External considering seems to me very far away. A. It must be here to-day. If it remains far away, you remain far away yourself. Q. Does external considering involve the ability to play a conscious role? A. Yes, but there are different degrees. External considering is only the beginning; to play a conscious role means much more. Q. And what is internal considering? A. Feeling that people do not pay you enough; making accounts; always feeling cheated, underpaid. Q. I find it very difficult to stop inner considering. Is there any special technique to be employed against it? A. No, there is no special technique—only understanding and right points of view. Observe more. Perhaps you will find moments free from considering and see how to begin struggling with it and studying it. It is mechanical, a mechanical attitude, the same as identification. Q. Is self-justification always a manifestation of internal considering? A. It is connected with it, but it is another thing. Internal considering does not need any justification. One must have a reason for justifying, but if one is in internal considering, one always justifies it. Internal considering
means identification; external considering means struggle with identification. Internal considering is mechanical; external considering means at least attention. So by practising non-identifying, by trying to control attention, you find many opportunities of studying external considering and, if you find examples, perhaps you will find methods of struggling with internal considering and transforming it into the practice of external considering. For instance, you are talking to somebody from whom you want to get something. Say he knows something and you want him to tell you what he knows. Then you must speak in the way he would like, not argue, not oppose him. External considering is always practical. Q. Does inner considering mean considering oneself too much? A. It always takes the form of inner bargaining, of thinking that other people do not consider you enough. It is very important to understand inner considering. There are so many subtle forms of it we do not notice, and yet our life is filled with it. Q. Is desire to be noticed considering? A. Both desire to be and not to be noticed is considering. There are many psychological states that ordinary psychology cannot explain or describe which depend on identifying and considering. Q. How is it best to think of inner considering? A. You must try in free moments to have a right mind about it. When you are considering, it is too late. You must think of typical cases of considering, of what produces it, and then have a right point of view about it, realize how useless and ridiculous it is. Then compare it with external considering, and try not to forget it. If you do this you may remember it when a moment of considering comes, and perhaps it will not come. What is really important is to think about considering when you are free from it, and not justify or hide it from yourself. Q. The more I try to work, the more I seem to consider internally. It seems the most difficult thing to deal with. A. Considering cannot grow if you work, it only becomes more visible. And that means that it diminishes, for it cannot be seen without it diminishing. The fact that you notice it proves that it has become less strong. This is a natural illusion, the same as when one feels that one does not understand whereas before one understood. This means that one begins to understand. The first doubt about one's understanding already means a certain understanding. Q. Can one think of identification as a negative state that can only be caused by negative emotions? A. No, not quite like that. Identification is a necessary element in every negative emotion; you cannot have a negative emotion without identification. So the study of identification and struggle against identification are very powerful weapons in the struggle with negative emotions. Sometimes you cannot struggle with a negative emotion directly, but by trying not to
identify you diminish its power, for all the power of negative emotions lies in identification and imagination. So when you separate identification and imagination, the negative emotion practically disappears, or at any rate changes. Q. So to fight against negative emotions themselves we have to observe more and work against the strong identification with emotion? A. Yes. Later we will speak about methods of struggling with emotions themselves, because there are many and very definite methods, different for different emotions; but first you must struggle with negative imagination and identification. This is quite sufficient to destroy many of the usual negative emotions—in any case, to make them much lighter. You must start with this, because it is only possible to begin using stronger methods when you can struggle with identification to a certain extent, and when you have already stopped negative imagination. That must be stopped completely. It is useless to study further methods until that is done. Negative imagination you can stop; and even the study of identification will already diminish it. You must try to avoid identification as often as you can, not only in relation to negative emotions but in relation to everything. If you create in yourself the capacity of not identifying, that will affect these emotions and you will notice that they begin to disappear. Identification is the atmosphere in which negative emotions live, and they cannot live without it. Q. Can we have some rules or guidance to keep to in ordinary life conditions? A. Try to remember yourself, try not to identify. This will immediately produce an effect in ordinary life. What does life consist of? Negative emotions, identifying, considering, lying, sleep. The first point is: how to remember oneself, how to be more aware? And then you will find that negative emotions are one of the chief factors which make us unable to remember ourselves. So one thing cannot go without the other. You cannot struggle with negative emotions without remembering yourself more, and you cannot remember yourself more without struggling with negative emotions. If you remember these two things, you will understand everything better. Try to keep these two ideas, which are connected, in mind. Q. I had a problem which was worrying me. I tried to self-remember and for a short time I got into a state in which it was no longer possible to worry, and at the same time my sense of values generally changed. This state did not last long, but the problem, when it returned as one, did not again assume the importance it had before. I find it very difficult to recapture this state. A. Quite right. Continue to observe and you will find that there is a place in you where you are quiet, calm, and nothing can disturb you—only it is difficult to find the way there. But if you do it several times you will be
able to remember some of the steps, and by the same steps you may come there again. Only you cannot do it after one experience, for you will not remember the way. This quiet place is not a metaphor—it is a very real thing. Q. Is it the state you get to when you self-remember, because everything seems peaceful then and one really seems to be aware of oneself? A. Yes, you can take it like that. Q. I have tried to reach it again by trying to self-remember, but could not find it. A. If you find yourself in it again, try to remember how you got there, for sometimes it happens that one finds this place and loses the way there; then again one finds it and again loses the way. It is very difficult to remember the way to this place.
CHAPTER VI Understanding as the chief requirement in this system—Relativity of under- standing—How to increase understanding—A new language—Right and wrong attitudes—Attitudes and understanding—Necessity of aim and direction—Difficulty of finding out what one wants—Our aims are too remote— Good and evil—Morality and necessity of moral sense—Necessity of finding a permanent standard of right and wrong—Development of conscience as aim of the system—Seeing contradictions—Buffers as the chief obstacle to development of conscience—Preparation for breaking down buffers—Inner disharmony and happiness—Need to establish an inner balance—Standards of conduct in life—Consciousness and conscience—How to recognise truth— Need for sincerity with oneself—Mechanicalness I WISH TO REMIND YOU that this system is based on understanding. Understanding must occupy the first place in this system. The more you understand, the better the result of your work will be. Understanding is a relative term. Everyone understands something at every moment in his own way But understanding may be larger, and larger, and still larger In this system we call understanding a certain possible maximum on a certain level of knowledge and being. As a rule this maximum is too low; people's understanding is usually limited to only one room, and they never get out of that room. But the understanding of these ideas is very much beyond this one room. What I wish you to think about refers to the whole thing. People do not ask 'why' sufficiently often, and if they do, this 'why' is generally very small. You should think of why you come here, what you want from this system and why, what you can learn from it, why this system exists, why I talk of this system, what I wish to achieve by talking about it. One has to have a certain point of view about it all; it may be a wrong one, but still one must have some idea. As it is, almost every idea given remains unopened, unexplored. There are boxes and boxes that may be opened, the contents read and many new things added. But mostly we deal with unopened boxes. One box—knowledge, another—being, a third—understanding, and so on. We do not even open the boxes. First we have to learn the contents of the boxes. No need to limit yourself to a definite question in this respect. This is an organic system: in it you can start with anything. Start where you like,
only do something with the ideas you hear. It is not enough simply to sit on those boxes of books. Open the box with knowledge and the box with being. It is the relation between knowledge and being that is important. There are many things that you can understand now, although, of course, they will be surrounded by things you cannot understand yet; but if you begin with those you can understand, you will understand many other things. Every moment of understanding, every realization, sheds light not only on the thing we are thinking about but on many other things as well. Q. Is a moment of understanding a moment of self-remembering? A. It depends. It may be connected with it or not. Q. Could there be real understanding not connected with self-remembering? A. There is no 'real' understanding. Understanding is relative. It is like temperature, it may be five degrees, ten degrees, fifteen degrees. You see why ordinary language is no good and why we have to study a different language? Because in ordinary language all words are taken as absolutes. In reality there are different degrees of understanding. As I said, we can understand better, and still better. Then, if we want to understand still better, we must change our being. If we can bring higher emotional centre into play we can understand much better. To understand still more needs higher mental centre. You see, definitions can seldom help and, as a matter of fact, we can have very few definitions. This conviction that in order to understand something it is necessary to define it is quite wrong, because most things we cannot define, and the few that we can, we can define only relatively with the help of other things. So, among an enormous quantity of things we cannot define at all there are small islands of things we can define. Q. Is self-remembering less relative than understanding? A. Even if we take it as an absolute term, the question is, for how long? Whether you remember yourself in the best possible way for half an hour or for five minutes makes a very big difference. Q. How is one to bridge the gap between self-remembering and merely thinking about it? Is it a question of understanding? A. You have to break a certain wall, and you do not know how to do it. Learning to do something means acquiring a certain skill. For a long time you cannot do it well, you do it clumsily; then one day you find that you can do it properly. It is the same with self-remembering; not quite, but near enough. Q. Is there any way to increase one's understanding? A. Not one way; there are thousands of ways. All that we have spoken about from the first day is about ways to increase understanding. But the first way is by observing and studying ourselves, because this increases
our capacity to understand. That is the first step. If you could understand the ideas that have been given, your knowledge would increase. But you only understand on the surface and apart from desire. Or you may have quite a strong desire, but the machine does not work. Yet inside our machine we have better parts which at present we do not use. We can use them only by increasing consciousness. This is the only way. Q. Can memory of what we heard help? A. Memory, the best memory we may have, is not sufficient, because in this system we remember not by memory but by understanding. On the contrary, memory may be a hindrance. You hear something which has a right place in the system, and if you can put it where it belongs, you cannot forget it and it will remain there; but if you just remember what was said without putting it into its right place, it is quite useless. Each small thing you hear you must try to understand, and to understand means to find the place where it belongs among other ideas. You must have a general idea of the system and everything new must have its place in it— then you will not forget, and every new observation you make will find its place. It is as though you have a drawing without details and observation fills in the details. If you have no drawing, the observation is lost. But chiefly you must struggle with obstacles which prevent you from understanding. Only by removing these obstacles can you begin to understand more. But obstacles, with the exception of the general description of identification and so on, are individual. You must find your own; you must see what stands in your way, what keeps you from understanding. When you find it, you must struggle with it. It needs time, for it cannot be found at once, although in some cases it may be very clear almost from the beginning. For a long time all the work must be concentrated on understanding, for it is the only thing by which one can be guided. Our chief difficulty is that we want to 'do' before we even know what it is all about. But in this system one must understand first. When you understand things better, many other things will become possible, but not before. Q. You said that in order to understand this system one has to increase one's being to the same extent as one's knowledge, and, of the two, the most difficult is increase of being? A. Both are equally difficult. Q. But it seems to me easy to increase one's knowledge? A. Not as easy as you think, because knowledge without understanding will be useless, it will merely be more words. We must work on change of being, but if we work on that as we do everything in ordinary life, life will not be long enough. It is possible to get a durable change of being only if we use the perfected methods of school work, otherwise our attempts will be too scattered. The first condition of such work is not to believe anything, to verify everything one learns; and the second condition is not to do anything unless one
understands why and for what purpose one is doing something. So it depends on understanding; all short-cuts depend on understanding. Q. I did not understand the difference between being and understanding. A. You see, they are two different things. Understanding is a combination of knowledge and being. What is the limiting factor in ourselves? It is definitely our being, which means our capacity for understanding. What is understanding? It is connecting one bit of knowledge with another bit of knowledge. For instance, you will see that understanding depends on being if you take the elementary idea of being. Man is divided into different 'I's or groups of 'I's which are unconnected with one another. Then if one 'I' knows one thing, a second 'I' another thing, a third 'I' yet another, and they never meet, what kind of understanding is possible? From one point of view it may look as though a man has enough knowledge, but since these 'I's never meet, this knowledge can never be brought together. This is the state of an ordinary man's being, and it proves that as he is, he cannot have understanding. Understanding always means connecting things with the whole, and if one does not know the whole, how can one connect? In this system you must try to understand; only what you understand gives positive results. If you do something without understanding it will not give much, for only what you understand is valuable. Q. I find it difficult to understand the idea that one does not need faith. Do you not have to have faith in the system ideas? A. No, faith will not help. You have to accept or not accept the ideas on the basis of your preparation. You come to these ideas with certain material, and with the help of this material you decide whether to accept them or not, according to whether you understand them or not. For yourself you can use the word 'accept', but we use the word 'understand'; and if you can understand, you do not need faith. There is absolutely nothing in the preliminary ideas that needs faith, because in some cases, as on the psychological side, you can verify everything, and in some other cases, as in studying the universe, there is the idea of scale. I do not see a single idea in this system which requires faith and where faith would help. On the contrary, I think faith would make things more difficult and stop you instead of helping you. Q. If for a moment I see mechanicalness and go against it, I sometimes see and understand something new. What gives that understanding? A. It is a matter for observation. You will get an answer to your question only if you observe facts and see the internal and external conditions which accompany understanding and the conditions which accompany lack of understanding. Q. Is there anything else one can do, except self-observation, to further one's understanding? A. Yes, one must understand what one is doing and why one is doing